IOC British list
Obvious question, will we be able to transfer our British list to the new adapted version very soon?
Please Log in to join the conversation.
BOURC have announced that the changes of the taxonomic treatment of the British list to follow IOC won't take effect until 1st Jan 2018. So we'll update the list at that point.
Cheers
Please Log in to join the conversation.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 9
So far as I can see, if nothing changes in next 12 months, the changes for British listers are as follows:
Split of Bean Goose into Tundra/Taiga
Loss of Fea's Petrel (following split with Desertas Petrel, not identifiable in the field yet???)
Lump of Hudsonian Whimbrel
Split of Thayer's Gull
Split of Least Tern
Split of Turkestan/Daurian (i.e. Isabelline) Shrike
Split of Two-barred Greenish Warbler
Split of Stejneger's Stonechat
Split of Eastern Yellow Wagtail
Lump of Lesser and Common/Mealy Redpoll
So a net gain of 4. If anyone else spots anything I've missed, please let me know.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
The American position accords with mine; the ABA rules are quite clear on the subject (listing.aba.org/big-year-rules/). No American birders would have dreamed of dragging out previous Big Year lists when the Times Square Ball fell at midnight on 1/1/17 and starting to shove Hawaiian birds on it...
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 9
Jeremy Hurley.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 32
Cheers
Please Log in to join the conversation.
Perhaps the BOU list could be kept as an option within your lists, but closed to amendments/additions from the point it is replaced?
Would that appease people?
Personally it doesn't bother me, the new adopted list could have been a far worse one in my eyes, and I think in the eyes of most birders. I think the most painful split is Desertas and Fea's Petrel to species, as people cannot say which they have seen. Ouch! My sympathies.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
The new list doesn't come into effect until 2018, so we won't be making any changes until the end of this year.
Cheers
-- Mike --

Want a signature like this?
Please Log in to join the conversation.
Regards,
Jeremy Hurley.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 32
You could perhaps leave BOU as an Authority that can be selected for year lists up to 2017, and leave it as it currently stands, making no future updates to the species on the List.
Since, to all intents and purposes, BOU will no longer exist as a separate Authority, you could then not include it as an option to choose for 2018 Year Lists and subsequent years; allow only IOC and UK400 as options to pick from. The current year lists would stay unaltered, but all new ones would be under the new rules.
Wouldn't that work, and require minimum or practically nil development time (just defining the accepted Authorities when you open the 2018 Year List category)?
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 9
Next year, there will still be a BOURC list. It will have some splits and lumps as usual, and the odd new species (e.g. presumably Siberian Accentor!) will have been added. We'll implement these changes too.
There will be no change over what's always happened. There will still be a BOURC list. The only difference is around the group of people whose advice BOURC follows on splits and lumps.
Sorry if I'm missing something.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
Cheers
Andy
Please Log in to join the conversation.
For example, Turkestan Shrike. As far I am aware BOU are at present only allowing adults e.g. 3rd June 2003, Porlock Marsh, Somerset, e.g. July 1998, Cemlyn Bay. First-winters at the moment are not accepted.
For example, Daurian Shrike. As far I am aware BOU are at present only allowing adults e.g. Nene Washes Sept 2000. First-winters at the moment are not accepted.
For example, Eastern Yellow Wagtail are only accepted on DNA or voice analysis. For example, Colyford, Devon, Dec 2010 on DNA.
For example, the only accepted Indigo Bunting on the BOU list is the Ramsey Island. The 1988 Norfolk bird was not accepted on to Category A.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 20
With that issue in mind, I have reluctantly removed any representative of the formerly lumped Isabelline Shrike on my BOU list on the basis of the only two I have seen in Britain, i.e. two first-winter individuals encountered in my home county of Essex in October of 1988 and 2016, having not yet been attributed to contemporary species status.
Furthermore, with no other personal sightings of either Daurian or Turkestan Shrikes globally, a similarly applied discipline will impact as a "triple whammy", with commensurate removals on both my IOC and Clements world lists!
There appears to have been a ruthless revision by the BOURC of all previously accepted records by the British Birds Rarities Committee (BBRC) of both adult and first-winter individuals (even those trapped) that were considered to be either Daurian or Turkestan races at the time.
To date then, it appears the BOURC have not counted any "Isabelline Shrikes" to species level prior to 1995 and have cited just five accepted as Daurian and eight as Turkestan (A Checklist of Birds of Britain, 9th edition, Dec 2017).
It is hoped that, with the splitting of Isabelline Shrike, all previous records will be further scrutinised in an attempt to hone in to species status, although many may never be named with certainty. It is my own view, however, that the majority of first-winter "Isabelline Shrike" type individuals occurring in Britain are probably Daurian.
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 32
You do realise that you have done exactly that with Siberian Stonechat and included an individual not accepted to species by BBRC/BOURC?
Personally, I'll clearly mark my list so it can be analysed if others wish and follow the BOU taxonomy on a BOU list but I'll follow my own judgement on the identification of individuals to species. I no longer hold the BBRC in the same esteem as I did (and have found a couple of their recent published statements to be odd). They could have been far more proactive in the last year between announcement and adoption.
I certainly would not criticise individuals for following their own judgements on non-assigned Stonechats and Isabelline Shrikes and indeed, I intend to resurrect my original Western Bocelli 's Warbler.
Interesting times.
All the best
Paul
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 31
I made a mistake on the Siberian Stonechat so I have deleted it from the list. I will investigate which ones are acceptable.
Cheers
Steve
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 20
For your information, the following ten are the accepted records:-
1913 - Fair Isle (maurus)
1985 - Porthgwarra (variegatus)
1993 - Landguard (variegatus)
2006 - Virtue (variegafus)
2013 - Agnes (variegatus)
2014 - Fair Isle (variegatus)
2015 - Orfordness (maurus)
2016 - Titchfield Haven (variegatus)
2016 - Fair Isle (maurus)
2016 - St Mary's (variegatus)
So I suspect that if you want to only tick accepted records to species, you should tick the St Agnes variegatus.
However, personally, I find c400 non-assigned Stonechats as vaguely farcical. Hence my personal position.
As you will imagine, I've spent some time staring at Stonechats and Isabelline Shrikes etc and pondering what I feel is right personally.
I suppose having got my head around others for years accepting seawatched Fea's/Zino's as Fea's, I got more relaxed over such things and as I say, I find the implementation of the changes as symptomatic of the divergence between taxonomists/the BBRC from birders/listers.
All the best
Paul
Please Log in to join the conversation.
- Posts: 31