Patch Lists - In or From?

Hi all

One of the questions that has been posed recently is, for a patch list, given that it should relate to a fixed area, can you only count birds seen/heard within that area? Or can you count birds seen FROM within the area (i.e. you are there, but the bird could be miles away)?

Personally, I've always allowed "from" records for patch lists (including garden lists) but have been firmer about county lists (so I didn't count Buff-breasted Sandpiper on my Avon list despite me being in Avon, but the buffers being over the river in Somerset).

Any thoughts?

Andy

Andy Musgrove wrote:

Personally, I've always allowed "from" records for patch lists (including garden lists) but have been firmer about county lists (so I didn't count Buff-breasted Sandpiper on my Avon list despite me being in Avon, but the buffers being over the river in Somerset).

I've tended to take the same approach, although admit that it is a bit illogical. I think the reasoning is that for small and relatively insignificant areas it makes patch listing more interesting: my garden list would still be in single figures after more than 2 years if I didn't do this!

I actually have two garden lists-one of birds in the garden and where appropriate the airspace above, and another which is best described as seen from the house ie outside the garden itself. As I can see for about two miles from one bedroom over a wide range of suburban agricultural and woodland habitat I've got a lot of good birds on it.
My local 10k square (TL22) on the other hand, only has birds definitely within the recording area. The same goes for my county list.

Dear Andy,

I've never "talked" in a birding chatroom before and just wanted to see if I could do it! I picked your forum 'cuz it was the easiest. Like you, I count on my "yard list" anything seem FROM my yard--i.e., a flock of Sandhill Cranes flying high overhead becomes a "yard bird", because I've seen them from my front porch. Conversely, something can't go on my COUNTY list unless the bird, itself, was physically IN Pueblo County--even though I (sorry, this thing won't underline)was NOT. For example, one time when my car was parked (along the road) in an adjoining county, a very good bird was seen just beyond in what was actually Pueblo County. I can't recall right now what the bird was. But I do remember COUNTING it on my county list! Hope this helps! Sincerely,Mymm Ackley P.S. Unfortunately I'm not British. I live in Pueblo, Colorado, USA!

In or from...

How does this work when you are birding coastal areas?

12 years ago I was standing on Southend Pier with my feet firmly planted in Essex. Seen from the pier were 3 Northern Gannets. These I consider to be 'Essex birds' even if they might just have been physically just over the Kent side of the Thames. Likewise the Great Skua and Parasitic Jaeger seen both at Southend and Tilbury.

These could be disputed, but what if the same birds had been seen off Walton or Holland on Sea where there is no other county boundary? Here I would also count them but would you?

How many Norfolk listers include seabirds seen off Sheringham or Cley even if they are a mile or so off the coast?

Tony Whitehead

For pelagic birds such as this I'd suggest it really doesn't matter - by their very nature they travel large distances at sea and therefore it is highly likely that they have been in both county waters, even if they were a few yards "the wrong side" of the boundary when you saw them!

Ah, now if it was definitely over a county border, I wouldn't personally count them. If they were somewhat in the middle of the Thames, where it wasn't clear, I'd probably have them, and I'd certainly count anything seen off the Norfolk coast on my Norfolk list. Note that trying to judge linear distance out to see is almost impossible unless you have known markers (like the Runnelstone off Porthgwarra)